Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

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Arashikage
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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#16 » Post by Arashikage » 19 Jan 2014 20:09

Herkuml requires a lot of gear to use. Its a very endgame trinket. About DVhc i don't agree, its the best feral pvp trinket out there but for pve i'd rather use WFS because I'd rather have static crit than depend on a proc for it, and buffed and talented, 510 agi is not going to exceed 1250 ap, whatever buff you want to multiply it with.

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#17 » Post by Myaoming » 21 Jan 2014 17:29

I'm not sure if it's a matter of taste or not, but I really believe DC/DV HC is better than WFS HC if you're white crit capped. I prefer the constant AP I get rather than the constant crit that will only affect yellow hits. Not to mention, if you really aim to get higher crit than the cap, DV/DC HC Agi proc does give you a lot of crit (7.27% without the bonus attributes from talents and buffs) along with the AP.
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
Siforosse of the Undercity: Level 80 Undead Affliction Warlock PvP/Demon PvE
Zibuluge of the Ashen Verdict: Level 80 Human Frost DK PvP/PvE
Inverse: Level 80 Human Fire Mage PvP/PvE
Slar: Level 80 Night Elf Resto/Feral Druid PvE

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#18 » Post by Arashikage » 22 Jan 2014 01:45

Perhaps so, but considering the fact that im at 70ish % crit in cat form and all i need to be complete is the sindragosa neckace (which i will be using at the cost of a crit loss from the rimetooth pendant hc) i believe WFS hc is your best bet, as it will give you a static 70ish% crit, which then goes up to like 76.33% excluding the idol proc and at that point i'd rather have the AP from wfs than the agility from DV or the haste from HWT.

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#19 » Post by Myaoming » 23 Mar 2014 12:46

With a doable LK25HC, we have a BiS update: Oathbinder HC

Now this weapon will certainly overcap your ArP especially without Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak. Therefore some modifications to your gems is required:
You can cap ArP at 1404 rating with these items + Oathbinder HC + Hearty Rhino, while having many unArPed gem slots. Use these free slots to cap Expertise and Hit Rating.
Recommended gems beside Rigid King's Amber (20 Hit) are: Glinting Ametrine (10 Agi + 10 Hit) - Accurate Ametrine (10 Hit - 10 Exp).

You should still have some free slots with the above gear, so gemming Nightmare Tear (10 to all stats) and Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi) to fill these slots is the way to go.
I personally suggest gemming Bold Cardinal Ruby (20 Str) + Etched Ametrine (10 Str - 10 Hit) instead of Glinting Ametrine (10 Agi + 10 Hit) + Glinting Ametrine (10 Agi + 10 Hit) if you're about to keep Whispering Fanged Skull since you'll be overcapping Crit by far. Str gives you higher AP than Agi.

Herkuml War Token is becoming more and more valuable upon unlocking new gear. Its stats became even more valuable now with the Haste loss from replacing Distant Land. I personally suggest it once again.

And for the Oathbinder weapon enchant, I suggest Black Magic to compensate the Haste loss. I know most of you will go for Berserking. The DPS difference won't be noticeable, and Berserking is a better AoE enchant. I'm a single target specialist though :P

I want to add that it's not really necessary to cap Expertise at 26. 22-23 should be enough.

With Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak available:
You won't be in need for any for Bold Cardinal Ruby (20 Str) or Delicate Cardinal Ruby (20 Agi) anymore as they'll get replaced once again by ArP gems to compensate the loss from replacing Vereesa's Dexterity/Sylvanas' Cunning. You'll be able to cap ArP at 1387 or 1407 (a matter of preference here between Hit and ArP gem prioritization while keeping a Nightmare Tear)
Last edited by Myaoming on 24 Mar 2014 19:51, edited 5 times in total.
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
Siforosse of the Undercity: Level 80 Undead Affliction Warlock PvP/Demon PvE
Zibuluge of the Ashen Verdict: Level 80 Human Frost DK PvP/PvE
Inverse: Level 80 Human Fire Mage PvP/PvE
Slar: Level 80 Night Elf Resto/Feral Druid PvE

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#20 » Post by Relina » 23 Mar 2014 13:41

well given the newest commit to Gunship encounter on TC @ github we might be getting Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak soon too :)

P.S. : Slar its Nightmare Tear not Nightmare Ender :)

P.P.S : Slar does Black Magic work as feral now :O ?
Truewow: Retired for now.
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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#21 » Post by Myaoming » 23 Mar 2014 15:12

Yeah Nightmare Tear sorry :D
Well I'm not sure about Black Magic nope :/
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
Siforosse of the Undercity: Level 80 Undead Affliction Warlock PvP/Demon PvE
Zibuluge of the Ashen Verdict: Level 80 Human Frost DK PvP/PvE
Inverse: Level 80 Human Fire Mage PvP/PvE
Slar: Level 80 Night Elf Resto/Feral Druid PvE

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#22 » Post by Arashikage » 24 Mar 2014 03:00

Thanks for that, I'll create a new rawr file and post an updated list as early as i can.

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#23 » Post by Myaoming » 24 Mar 2014 19:34

As Relina said, Gunship is about to be released, so you might wanna consider Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak while playing with Rawr.
Updated my above post and added information related to the cloak.
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
Siforosse of the Undercity: Level 80 Undead Affliction Warlock PvP/Demon PvE
Zibuluge of the Ashen Verdict: Level 80 Human Frost DK PvP/PvE
Inverse: Level 80 Human Fire Mage PvP/PvE
Slar: Level 80 Night Elf Resto/Feral Druid PvE

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide

#24 » Post by Gr00vest » 12 Sep 2014 07:21

Myaoming wrote:Oh oh I would like to add something too! :D

If there's a Blood DK in the raid, keep bugging him for Hysteria
I'm always happy to give hysteria to Fury, Cat or Combat but Disc and you Joe are my favourite targets /wink

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#25 » Post by Myaoming » 12 Sep 2014 22:18

Luff u 2 <3

The BiS list needs an update again. Will take care of it in a bit.
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
Siforosse of the Undercity: Level 80 Undead Affliction Warlock PvP/Demon PvE
Zibuluge of the Ashen Verdict: Level 80 Human Frost DK PvP/PvE
Inverse: Level 80 Human Fire Mage PvP/PvE
Slar: Level 80 Night Elf Resto/Feral Druid PvE

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#26 » Post by Myaoming » 13 Sep 2014 03:33

TrueWoW's Final Feral DPS BiS List
Head: Sanctified Lasherweave Headguard (Arcanum of Torment)
Neck: Sindragosa's Cruel Claw
Shoulder: Sanctified Lasherweave Shoulderpads (Master's Inscription of the Axe > Greater Inscription of the Axe)
Back: Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak (Swordguard Embroidery > Greater Speed)
Chest: Sanctified Lasherweave Raiment (Powerful Stats)
Wrist: Umbrage Armbands (Fur Lining - Attack Power > Greater Assault)
Hands: Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy (Hyperspeed Accelerators > Precision)
Waist: Astrylian's Sutured Cinch
Legs: Sanctified Lasherweave Legguards (Nerubian Leg Reinforcements)
Feet: Frostbitten Fur Boots (Nitro Boost >= Icewalker)
Finger 1: Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance (Assault)
Finger 2: Signet of Twilight (Assault)
Trinket 1: Deathbringer's Will
Trinket 2: Sharpened Twilight Scale
Weapon: Oathbinder, Charge of the Ranger-General (Black Magic > Berserking)
Idol: Idol of the Crying Moon
Food: Strength.
Flask: Endless Rage.
Optional Potion: Speed.

Gemming without Jewelcrafting (Heroic Presence gemming in blue):
8 Red sockets: 8x Fractured Cardinal Ruby (+20 ArP)

9 Yellow sockets with Hyperspeed Accelerators: (4x/1x) Rigid King's Amber (+20 Hit) + (5x/8x) Etched Ametrine (10 Str/Hit)

9 Yellow sockets with Precision: (5x/2x) Rigid King's Amber (+20 Hit) + (1x/4x) Etched Ametrine (10 Str/Hit) + (3x/3x) Fierce Ametrine (10 Str/Haste)

3 Blue sockets: 1x Nightmare Tear (+10 Stats) + 1x Puissant Dreadstone (10 ArP/15 Stam) + 1x Fractured Cardinal Ruby (+20 ArP)

1 Prismatic socket: 1x Fractured Cardinal Ruby (+20 ArP)

Blacksmith extra socket: 1x Bold Cardinal Ruby (+20 Str)

Total sockets activated = 19 out of 20
Total socket bonus = 66 Agi



Gemming with Jewelcrafting (Heroic Presence gemming in blue):
8 Red sockets: 2x Fractured Dragon's Eye (+34 ArP) + 6x Fractured Cardinal Ruby (+20 ArP)

9 Yellow sockets with Hyperspeed Accelerators: (1x/1x) Rigid Dragon's Eye (+34 Hit) + (3x/0x) Rigid King's Amber (+20 Hit) + (4x/7x) Etched Ametrine (10 Str/Hit) + (1x/1x) Fierce Ametrine (10 Str/Haste)

9 Yellow sockets with Precision: (1x/1x) Rigid Dragon's Eye (+34 Hit) + (4x/1x) Rigid King's Amber (+20 Hit) + (0x/6x) Etched Ametrine (10 Str/Hit) + (4x/1x) Fierce Ametrine (10 Str/Haste)

3 Blue sockets: 1x Nightmare Tear (+10 Stats) + 1x Fractured Cardinal Ruby (20 ArP) + 1x Bold Cardinal Ruby (20 Str)

1 Prismatic socket: 1x Bold Cardinal Ruby (+20 Str)

Blacksmith extra socket: 1x Bold Cardinal Ruby (+20 Str)

Total sockets activated = 18 out of 20
Total socket bonus = 58 Agi



Additional Information:
- Why Signet of Twilight instead of Frostbrood Sapphire Ring: After running countless simulations, the difference turned out to be this! A build with Frostbrood Sapphire Ring provides an additional 9 AP, while a build with Signet of the Twilight provides an additional 0.4% Crit (18 Crit Rating).

- For those already questioning the usage of Strength food instead of ArP food: I've taken in consideration cases where you die in mid-fight. Upon a battle resurrection, losing the 40 Str buff is not an issue, but going below the ArP cap can drop your DPS considerably. Remember that the last points of ArP are the most valuable. <<< Credits to Andruid, aka Merkava.

Average DPS Estimation: 18k DPS (Rotface w/o external buffs)
Max DPS Estimation: 19k DPS (Rotface w/o external buffs)
Last edited by Myaoming on 31 Jul 2015 22:41, edited 12 times in total.
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
Siforosse of the Undercity: Level 80 Undead Affliction Warlock PvP/Demon PvE
Zibuluge of the Ashen Verdict: Level 80 Human Frost DK PvP/PvE
Inverse: Level 80 Human Fire Mage PvP/PvE
Slar: Level 80 Night Elf Resto/Feral Druid PvE

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#27 » Post by Myaoming » 09 Jun 2015 04:18

An unexpected, small and interesting addition to this rotting guide + an attempt to highlight it for those interested in Feral PvE DPS.
This is only a minor DPS improvement. This is not necessary at all, you can be a decent PvE Cat without it. This is mostly aimed to freaks and maniacs like me <:
Don't bother reading if you aren't one! There's no TL;DR! If you're interested, you should read it all :)
***Bear Combo***
I decided to share the not-so-obvious "Bear Combo" goodies to hopefully see more people practicing it. This might seem insane or weird, especially because nothing of this was actually mentioned on EJ forums, which is widely known as the best and most useful WotLK Feral PvE DPS guide. But keep in mind that these guys witnessed 2 years (or less) of WotLK only; The guide wasn't even updated to 3.3.5, hence the absence of Sharpened Twilight Scale as a BiS item.

Anyway, the idea named "Bear Combo" is based on switching to Bear Form while energy is low and pooling, and spam a simple Mangle + Maul macro (mentioned below) until the first free global cooldown, then switch back to Cat Form as fast as possible.

Code: Select all

/cast Enrage
/cast Mangle (Bear)
/cast Maul
Is this worth it?
Some of you might already be asking this, because it's obviously eating some valuable Cat autoattacks. This technique has its pros and cons, and I have ran tests and did calculations that will hopefully cover up everything and every doubt.

Image

This is my latest test. It shows an average white crit of 4953 damage (~5k), and shows a total of 142139 damage done by Mangle + Maul.

If you haven't noticed yet, there are 8 Mauls cast, and just 4 Mangles cast, how is that possible?
Well first of all, if Maul is queued and a shapeshift (whatever form except Flying obviously) is cast, the Maul queued WILL be carried, and WILL land a hit in your new form. Travel Form, Normal Form, you name it, it will work; Maul will inherit the AP of that new form too. In this case, it's Cat Form's AP which is ridiculously high, but as much as it sounds OP, it's actually not, because Cat Form's paw damage does less than Bear Form's paw per hit, and Maul's AP scaling is pretty low (0.179*AP).
Second of all, the "Bear Combo" process takes about 2.1 to 2.5 seconds if the player is fast and has a lot of practice, as well as a good latency. 1 second shapeshift GCD, 1 second Mangle GCD, and 0.1 to 0.5 seconds that include imperfections (human capability and latency) and the probable required time to queue a second Maul and go back to Cat Form. So yeah, each "Bear Combo" consists of 2x Mauls, 1x Mangle.
Note that Maul has no GCD, but is dependent on Bear's attack speed, which is always lower than 2 seconds in raids with good gear. Also note that Cat Form shapeshift GCD doesn't count because autoattacks start as soon as you take the form, so instantly.
Anyway, we can conclude that the number of "Bear Combo"s done is equivalent to the number of Mangle (Bear) done.

Calculations:
For calculation purposes, I decided to consider that each "Bear Combo" took 3 seconds, and that the attack speed in Cat Form is 0.6. I also decided to consider that all autoattacks are Crits, no Glancing Blows. Yes, I gave an additional advantage to autoattacks.
In this encounter, 4 "Bear Combo"s were done ==> 12 seconds with no Cat autoattacks.
12/0.6 = 20 autoattacks "wasted".
20*5k = 100k damage.
142k - 100k = 42k damage.
The results show 42k damage difference in favor of the "Bear Combo", but it doesn't end here.

Cons:
- Threat generation: Maul generates a lot of threat, and this technique resulted in death few times, especially if it's used after the initial burst. Use carefully, especially in crucial fights like LKhc or PPhc!
- Conflict with Clearcasting procs: A lot of practice has shown that there's a slight chance of an Omen of Clarity proc right before going for the "Bear Combo" or during it. If it happens during it, then Oh well... But if it happens right before it, chances are you will notice it during the shapeshifting GCD, and hopefully go back to Cat Form to make good use of it instead of wasting it on Bear abilities. Only reflexes will help here.
- Conflict with DoTs: Rake ticks every 3 seconds, Rip ticks every 2 seconds. Theoretically, at least one of these DoTs will tick during the "Bear Combo". These ticks will scale with Bear's AP, which is lower than Cat's AP. But no worries, the combo's damage gain will easily compensate.

Additional Information:
This test was done on a ~3.5 minutes Rotface fight using this gear and this Protector of the Pack spec.
Distand Land, Herkuml War Token, and Hyperspeed Accelerators on Hands are actually enhancing autoattacks due to the Haste, which theoretically implies that, with BiS endgame gear (less Haste), autoattacks are less valuable, and "Bear Combo" is more valuable.
With that said, it might be preferable if you skip doing the combo while under the effect of Heroism/Bloodlust, and/or Speed of the Vrykul DBW proc, and/or Potion of Speed.
Also, The longer the fight, the bigger the damage difference becomes.

Protector of the Pack spec has it cons too. The idea of it is taking 5x Furor, and 3x Protector of the Pack to ensure a successful combo with the highest possible damage output. I had to take out Feral Instinct, means no more 200k DPS followed by a death on trash mobs, and I had to take out a point from Feral Swiftness, which results in a reduced mobility. You can optionally take out Survival Instincts instead to keep 2x Feral Swiftness, or simply copy this spec as it is and pretend you're a haxor Warrior with 15% additional movement speed ^_^

Enjoy!
Last edited by Myaoming on 29 Jul 2015 17:28, edited 5 times in total.
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
Siforosse of the Undercity: Level 80 Undead Affliction Warlock PvP/Demon PvE
Zibuluge of the Ashen Verdict: Level 80 Human Frost DK PvP/PvE
Inverse: Level 80 Human Fire Mage PvP/PvE
Slar: Level 80 Night Elf Resto/Feral Druid PvE

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Relina
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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#28 » Post by Relina » 09 Jun 2015 06:50

Lack of working Black Magic for ferals really starts to hurt our dps once we are closer to BiS & I doubt it will ever be working.
Truewow: Retired for now.
Peace - Lvl: 80 Paladin

Primalwow: Retired for now.
Relina - Lvl: 70 Paladin

I'm willing to become a stone bridge.
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to catch a glimpse of you passing by.

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#29 » Post by Myaoming » 09 Jun 2015 14:01

Yeah the impact must be significant... I bumped the BT report, hopefully Devs will notice it. I don't really believe it's a hard fix. Should be something close/similar to DK T10 4-set fix if not even much easier (it was fixed by adding some spells like Death and Decay, Blood Boil, Presences, etc.. to the list of spells that can proc the set)
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
Siforosse of the Undercity: Level 80 Undead Affliction Warlock PvP/Demon PvE
Zibuluge of the Ashen Verdict: Level 80 Human Frost DK PvP/PvE
Inverse: Level 80 Human Fire Mage PvP/PvE
Slar: Level 80 Night Elf Resto/Feral Druid PvE

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Re: Feral PvE DPS guide (Now updated with BiS list)

#30 » Post by Myaoming » 29 Jul 2015 17:19

Updated the BiS list: Sharpened Twilight Scale HC with the required minor tweaks.

If you have any questions regarding anything, including builds with different professions, feel free to PM me :)
Elder Myaoming (aka Slardar): Level 80 Tauren Feral PvE/PvP
Siforosse of the Undercity: Level 80 Undead Affliction Warlock PvP/Demon PvE
Zibuluge of the Ashen Verdict: Level 80 Human Frost DK PvP/PvE
Inverse: Level 80 Human Fire Mage PvP/PvE
Slar: Level 80 Night Elf Resto/Feral Druid PvE

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