[Rejected] Arena Season Revamp

What do you think?

Everything looks good to me.
1
3%
Sounds good to me with the exception of the Shadow Mourne part.
1
3%
I think this is a bad idea.
29
94%
 
Total votes: 31

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Gnurg
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[Rejected] Arena Season Revamp

#1 » Post by Gnurg » 23 Oct 2015 13:05

The arena season is coming to an end, which means a new season is approaching. With that in mind, I would like to give my thoughts at a possible revamp for the new season, which will both encourage people to play more arena and win-trade less (i.e. 10 games for arena points excuse).

For the current season we had a new system which's purpose was to avoid farming of low rated teams in order to gain high rating. It was a nice implementation, but it did not take in account the lack of active arena players. After surpassing 1500 rating, you pretty much had to wait 10 minutes per game to start (just to beat some low geared team in less than a minute), killing off the arena scene.

Roel already mentioned that he would loosen up the system, quite likely meaning that he would be reducing the timer from 10 minutes to like 5 minutes. This alone is very good, but I still think the main problem is the lack of active arena players.

"But why are there few arena players?" I would say motivation. One of the goals every season is to gather the season's gear, but this season has been repeating for the last 3? years. Almost everyone does already have the gear.

"But there are players who don't have the gear, won't they queue up?" If you were a new player who just got his Furious/Relentless gear and had to fight off the big bullies in full Wrathful gear (and maybe a legendary axe), you would give up rather quickly if you were destroyed just a minute into the fight.

My suggestions:
1. Replace Wrathful gear with Relentless gear at the end of the season.
2. Arena rating starting at 1000.
3. Set the cost of Wrathful Gear to zero or make it possible to trade in your Relentless piece the Wrathful equivalent.
4. Do not award Arena Points anymore.
5. Disable Chaos Bane (Shadow Mourne's proc) for arenas

1. Replacing the Wrathful Gear at the end of the season would give every season a fresh starts. New players would have a greater chance of making it into the arena scene as everyone would be starting at a somewhat even level. It would encourage people to gear up once again, so they can show off their Wrathful Gear and be stronger in other PvP scenarios like battlegrounds. You can only be a Wrathful Gladiator (implying gear, not title) if you're playing arena that season.

2. Having the arena rating start at 1000 would make the climb to gear unlock rating seem closer. The 0-1000 climb is very pointless as it pretty much just requires you to win like 20 games against anyone before actually starting the climb where you can start falling (losing rating). It's a unnecessary step, which basically puts experienced players up against inexperienced players for a lot of games, which as beforementioned can lead to demotivation.

3. If you were to remove the gear on the end of the season, it would be rather dull to spend weeks gathering enough arena points to buy the items. I would like them to be free or make them tradeable with the Relentless equivalent (similiar to T10 pieces in ICC). The only requirement would be that you have sufficent rating (like now).

4. As the gear would not cost any Arena Points, there is no reason to award them. This would avoid having cases like just doing 10 games for rating (but actually feeding some friends arena rating).

5. Shadowmourne is simply too strong. The thing that seperates this item from other ilvl 284 (which are obtainable by anyone) is the Chaos Bane proc. I and everyone else in their right mind know that this should be nerfed and the simplest approach to this is to disable the Chaos Bane proc in arenas.

I would like everyone's opinion about this, but please give it a thought before declining it right away. Keep in mind that it's less than two week for the next season, so if you like this approach, speak up now.

The overall goal of this is to revive the arena scene.
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ItchyVortex
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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#2 » Post by ItchyVortex » 23 Oct 2015 13:23

Nice and insightful post Gnurgina! Here's my opinions if anyone cares.

1) Its a nice idea but it has its negative points too. Some players have motivation but dont have the time to chase high rating every season, it would be lame for them to never have WF again. Theres also players with 10000 chars, it would be nice if they started being active in arena with all of them but it just wont happen, they will just quit because they lost their gear and cant carry bg's as hard as they could. Some players that already worked for WF now prefer to switch around teams and partners as they are asked to, having fun playing with different ppl and helping.

2) 100% agreed, 0-1000 climb is a waste of time, even more when you can get matched against 2k rating players and shit at 0 rating...

3) Meh... read my opinion on 1.

4) I dont think 10 game queues are bad for PvP activity, as Rock said, farming is part of this game. Also you can buy gems and what not with AP.

5) Shift + Delete SM pls. I've already cried enough about it everywhere and nobody gives a fuck... I wish we had at least 1 season without it (or even better, with 264 pve ilvl limit) and see if the ladder would still be plagued with warrs and pals, maybe its not a coincidence after all :d

In the end the question is: is it better to sacrifice half-inactive players or active players that lose motivation after aquiring WF helm. I think its better to sac the latter since you can still get shoulders, titles (right?), and fun from 2's, but that might be biased since im part of the first group. Lets see what other players think.
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Gnurg
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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#3 » Post by Gnurg » 23 Oct 2015 13:41

ItchyVortex wrote:1) Its a nice idea but it has its negative points too. Some players have motivation but dont have the time to chase high rating every season, it would be lame for them to never have WF again. Theres also players with 10000 chars, it would be nice if they started being active in arena with all of them but it just wont happen, they will just quit because they lost their gear and cant carry bg's as hard as they could. Some players that already worked for WF now prefer to switch around teams and partners as they are asked to, having fun playing with different ppl and helping.
With a active bracket you could in theory regain your arena gear during the starting week of the season as you wouldn't have to wait to get enough arena points. You could as well play with anyone too as making it to around 1950 (helmet rating) should not be difficult like it has been for this season.

They don't lose their gear, it just gets downgraded one tier. So they can still carry the battleground in the same fashion they did before.

Some players (like myself) got the Wrathful Gear from playing during easier times when you had up to 50-100 teams above 1950 rating, whereas it now is like 6 teams above that rating. Most of those players being old-timers that were already geared (or any of Boxis's alts). It's way more important to get new players into playing arena than keeping the 'Wrathful Gladiators' from 4 seasons back geared.
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cherno666
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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#4 » Post by cherno666 » 23 Oct 2015 13:45

I agree that gear overflow is too scary for ppl to play arenas , but I don't think any1 who has aquired WF gear would accept it taken away , however it may not be a bad idea to disable WF gear usage in arenas unless it's obtained this season .

When new season starts most players will just que and lose and get discouraged by it since same players that already are WF geared will be often match in lower rating and.

Maybe by disabling usage of WF gear people earned last season people will feel like they are starting on the same level as everyone else.

About SM proc I agree , since you don't even have to kill LK25n to obtain it , yet it is as powerfull as LK25hc wepon + Proc.

Another thing about SM , since it's much easier obtainable (can get it in a month or a bit more just by doing 25n 10 boss runs and 25hc 6-7 boss runs) , aka you can easily get it by hosting a pug to gather shards + unlike on retail both difficulties can be done in same week, maybe in addition to removing proc also disable it for people who don't have LK25hc killed? That was everyone can be on the same ilvl possible at the start of arena and maybe people won't be scared or discouraged by quing arenas.
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Gnurg
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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#5 » Post by Gnurg » 23 Oct 2015 13:51

cherno666 wrote:Maybe by disabling usage of WF gear people earned last season people will feel like they are starting on the same level as everyone else.
Another thing about SM , since it's much easier obtainable (can get it in a month or a bit more just by doing 25n 10 boss runs and 25hc 6-7 boss runs) , aka you can easily get it by hosting a pug to gather shards + unlike on retail both difficulties can be done in same week, maybe in addition to removing proc also disable it for people who don't have LK25hc killed? That was everyone can be on the same ilvl possible at the start of arena and maybe people won't be scared or discouraged by quing arenas.
I think it's hard to implement stuff like that. Having the rele gear work as tokens for the WF gear would achieve the same thing anywas. :)
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Dropdead
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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#6 » Post by Dropdead » 23 Oct 2015 13:54

From the 5 suggestions just 1 makes sense (we all know which one it is) . Since rewards were moved to 2s , which is much more unbalanced bracket and healer+dps(usually pal+dk/war) have easy time climbing the ladder , nerfing SM seems fair enough .

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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#7 » Post by Justicelight » 23 Oct 2015 13:54

I would have to say many many things, but my forum rank allows me to have only a bit of diplomacy while posting, so:

Your suggestions, from 5 are actually only 3.

1, 3, 4 surrounds the same suggestion while the individuals are suggestions 2 and 5.

I would be up for removing SM proc, or entirely, only when it gets fixed. Since then, it can stay like this.

Setting arena team start rating at 1000 would be a mistake. It would be good idea at start, but it will just burst the teams unnecesary since the season lasts long enough for any active player to get gear. Also, arena team starting from 0 has the purpose of building the differences between teams, and sort their mmr before they reach enough rating required to buy wf gear.

Now regarding the gear deletion, or replace with relentless gear:
I have to ask, what the heck is in your mind? Are we that desperate to equalize players that we put it in a nice cocoon named "arena revamp" just because X player is not equal to Y player? I know, by removing gear, community will start being active more in pvp for the struggle of getting gear and so but this is just not a good idea.

When I started to gear my main char it was back in 2010. And you know what? I didn't faced players equally gearing me (rele bought with frosties). This is what all of this is about. If you replace all players gear with relentless, where will be the diference between an actual relentless player and a player who had wf but got his gear turned into relentless? When you geared your chars, I bet you didn't faced only players matching your gear, this is what this game is all about, not facing same gear players, but less or more geared players right from the point where you start doing arenas for gearing.

As for not rewarding any arena points, people are actually queueing bgs on daily basis just to get their arena points (25x30 = min. 700 per month).


Overall, I agree only with suggestion number 5, only if the SM really gets fixed. Or if this suggestion is applied anyway, a request for SM fix reimplementation would be necesary, to be fair with the PVE players too. As pvp-ers would love the SM nerfed in PvP, I bet pve players would love the old fix back in the game.


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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#8 » Post by Boxis » 23 Oct 2015 13:58

1.) Won't help. The difference between Rele/Wf is not that big, and most people at high ratings use a lot of pve gear anyway.
In order to "balance" something, you would need to start disabling 277 gear, some trinkets etc., but who knows which items are best to be disabled ?
This would be simply trial and error method, but, to be honest, I don't really mind.

2.) I see no harm in this except people being able to instantly buy librams/totems and fighting at high ratings with low mmr. So after a bit of thinking I think this is not needed.

3.) I don't know about this, but on the other hand, I think it wouldn't be bad, if just your current WF gear would be disabled until you hit the specific rating again which would unlock it.

4.) Nah, people use arena points for offparts/rele gear/gems/tbc arena gear.

5.) This is up to discussion, I don't mind again, though in its current state I don't see it being gamebreaking.

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Gnurg
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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#9 » Post by Gnurg » 23 Oct 2015 14:03

Justicelight wrote:I know, by removing gear, community will start being active more in pvp
Gnurg wrote:The overall goal of this is to revive the arena scene.
The 'balance' is something that comes in addition to this.
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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#10 » Post by Justicelight » 23 Oct 2015 14:11

Please put the whole sentence in the quote, it looks different than my context.
I know, by removing gear, community will start being active more in pvp for the struggle of getting gear and so but this is just not a good idea.
Like I said, too severe suggestions, except for maybe, the suggestion number 5, which can be applied togheter with bringing the old fix for SM for PvE purposes.
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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#11 » Post by ItchyVortex » 23 Oct 2015 14:13

Some players (like myself) got the Wrathful Gear from playing during easier times when you had up to 50-100 teams above 1950 rating, whereas it now is like 6 teams above that rating. Most of those players being old-timers that were already geared (or any of Boxis's alts). It's way more important to get new players into playing arena than keeping the 'Wrathful Gladiators' from 4 seasons back geared.
Saddly true, but some players worked an entire season for WF shoulder, having it taken away would be annoying and not motivating at all.
a request for SM fix reimplementation would be necesary, to be fair with the PVE players too. As pvp-ers would love the SM nerfed in PvP, I bet pve players would love the old fix back in the game.
Fix SM, remove it from arena and maybe bg, kthxbye.
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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#12 » Post by Dropdead » 23 Oct 2015 14:17

Esunna u know if SM gets ''FIXED''' again it wont be removed from either of those , would only make 2s even worse again , so better keep it as it is (which is FAR from being nerfed)

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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#13 » Post by ItchyVortex » 23 Oct 2015 14:23

I forgot the fix was a "fix", Seljo getting 4 chaos banes in a bladestorm and paladins having 100% chance to get a stack every time consecration hit.
it wont be removed from either of those
One can only hope... but 90% of staff and high end pvp players have SM and will cry saying its balanced and they need it.
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Lyoto

Re: Arena Season Revamp

#14 » Post by Lyoto » 23 Oct 2015 14:23

Absolutely against this.
Last season, when 3v3 gave shoulders and t2 weapons some teams really worked their asses off to get it. This season even with 10 minute queues and kinda dead 2v2 ladder some people managed to crawl up to 2k+ and it would be totally unfair towards them.

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Re: Arena Season Revamp

#15 » Post by Cocopuffs » 23 Oct 2015 15:11

Go drink some mead Gnurg, the norwegian weather is affecting your gray matter :^)

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