New Arena Season - New Approach

[Vaxsysl]

I'm so sad, I got a life now, and not only am I rusty, competitive PvP is beyond me at this point.

I like the mmr restrictions. No more bought/acquired geared characters that are a hard counter to the team they intend to annoy and no more "qq high rated teams are farming lowbies, I'm out qq". But I share my concern with 2.2k for tier weapon at least. Shoulders are fine if you ask me (outside shining status, admit it, this is good) but weapon...well, LK weapons are present, damage difference won't be that big, PvPer will get resilience instead... I actually like it. Maybe increasing the rating will need to be required, but we'll see I guess. I mean, honestly, you can get a number of really good weapons in PvE that don't require LK (heroic), and players engage in PvP with those (did back when I was active), this will only balance the gearing out. But yeah, maybe higher rating would be better. Then again, ratings will be tight, 2s are paper-rock-scissors more than 3s, this might actually even it out just slightly before hardcounters are the only thing one faces. Or w/a. There's really lots of small things to think about. We'll see.

And, I think that I'm the only warrior that has never seen the difference SM makes. I always preferred playing Fern (full PvP) in arena compared to Gaidin (SM). Guess I'll wait for Nazz's post.

[Vaen]

But yeah, maybe higher rating would be better.

I am unable to understand your point Fern, if most people did pvp with some weapon obtained from doing PvE and if a PvPer preferred a weapon with resilience, wouldn't it then be better to reduce rating required to get t2 weapon so that even more people have access to it and "balance" the pve weapons out?

[lollypop]

So, i did a few games y'day night to catch flush. Also to test the system.

So, 0 rating, 0 mmr (new mage + mate in furious-so can't have high mmr), we que, after a few mins of waiting we get a team at the other end of our bracket (0-1500), long story short, carried guy getting help by 4/5 wf lock. We put a good fight, but eventually lost, after they realized they will have to play for real (one of 'em almost died, kek). Okay.
Next few games were like advertised, insta que vs noobs like me, gearwise, skillwise. So, all good, as the first team, when they won us, left our bracket and started getting paired with 1500+.
Also, my impression is that if you are at 0 and other team is at 1490, you won't get instant game. All in all, looks good, but still, i think this pairing would be better for 3's.

[Justicelight]

As I saw with Boxis last night, the new approach for arena system is making teams getting calls faster whenever the total number of teams queued increases. Not sure if this was intended by your script Roel, other than getting rating+mmr values into the script.

[Roel]

The time it takes for calls is quite complicated, I don't even fully understand it myself. It seems to depend on how often it's cycling through the code. I have set minimum waiting times depending on rating difference but sometimes it can take longer. But obviously when more teams queue, there will also be more teams close to your rating.

[Puzzleshock]

Well now, when my team has 1505 party rating and 2k+ team mmr, me and my partner haven't gotten any arena matches for 4 straight days. Even when people with different party ratings que ( 1000-2200 rated teams ).

[Roel]

Well now, when my team has 1505 party rating and 2k+ team mmr, me and my partner haven't gotten any arena matches for 4 straight days. Even when people with different party ratings que ( 1000-2200 rated teams ).

I can imagine having 1500-1600 team rating with a high MMR to be a problem so I wouldn't advise making new arena teams when you're already at the top. Unless you plan to lose some games on purpose before you get to 1500 team rating to lower your MMR. I understand the current script is not optimal in this area but it works for preventing abuse.

Another option is to invite a low MMR player to your team and play with him until the team rating is high enough. But if you keep winning games and your MMR keeps rising, you will only make it harder on yourself once you get to high rating.

[purger1993]

I understand u would put this system on server where there are a lot of teams in que so high rated teams get qued together but whats the point to do it here when there are 2 teams in que at different rating.Basically if u are high rated u cant play any arenas ever.

[Puzzleshock]

Well now, when my team has 1505 party rating and 2k+ team mmr, me and my partner haven't gotten any arena matches for 4 straight days. Even when people with different party ratings que ( 1000-2200 rated teams ).

I can imagine having 1500-1600 team rating with a high MMR to be a problem so I wouldn't advise making new arena teams when you're already at the top. Unless you plan to lose some games on purpose before you get to 1500 team rating to lower your MMR. I understand the current script is not optimal in this area but it works for preventing abuse.

Another option is to invite a low MMR player to your team and play with him until the team rating is high enough. But if you keep winning games and your MMR keeps rising, you will only make it harder on yourself once you get to high rating.

Could you change your script to count only mmr, and not team rating? Since mmr is the real thing, and party rating is optimal. Again, good players will play against good players ( read: high mmr teams, even if one team has 1500 party rating and the other one has 2100 ), while teams with low mmr will play with similar, less skilled teams.

EDIT: Also, you said teams should intentionally lose games to lower their mmr, which is kind of abuse(?), while you don't want other players to abuse wintrading, which is basically the same thing. Also, i am fresh on this server, so my first 50 games, and i am already stuck with no teams to play against.

[Roel]

I have loosened up the MMR requirements so teams will no longer get stuck after next update. But you will have to wait at least 5 minutes in the queue if your MMR is too high compared to your team rating.

The requirements for team rating were added to prevent abuse at high rating which is really the only place where it matters for getting shoulders and titles. Without the team rating someone can queue with a low rated player and go up against low rated teams while dodging the good players. So team rating is actually more important than MMR for preventing abuse.

0-1500 is more of a free range so we don't need to be so strict with it. If high rated players make a new team and lower their MMR before raising their rating then we can't do much about that. They would actually be at a disadvantage if they don't do that since they would often have to wait 5 minutes in the queue. Their losses will get compensated by their wins afterwards and it's actually different from wintrading. We also wouldn't want high rated players to make new teams just to win against new players all the time so it's quite complicated to have a balanced system.

[bloodsugar]

I hope the update will soon be enabled cuz i rlly want to do some PvP, even tho me and puzzleshock are playin for fun, its annoying not to get queued while 4-5 teams are queueing at same time :3

[lollypop]

Ok, so played a few games more......in general system works good, despite some aberations, like facing 5/5 wf paladin with SM and 4/5 wf shaman, that couldn't have had low mmr. They just had low rating, because they made new team.
Idk how they could have got an almost instant match with us, the priest i play with has like 500 rating, my transfered mage should have 0 mmr, unless by some coincidence it's mmr from the old server got transfered, but i somehow doubt that.

On the positive side, lots of genuine lowbies que, i did some research after playing a few nights ago (analysis is my fetish kek), found out even such lowbies, geared with PoS shit que for 20 games a week.
If only there was a way to prevent high geared teams with high mmr but low team rating queing vs genuine lowbies, it would be even better. I suppose it doesn't matter much as soon season will end and we will all have low mmr, but still.....

[lollypop]

So, haven't played for a bit.....seeing the 2v2 ladder, looks like i didn't miss much.

A prognosis: this will become a plater server as other than plate with SM, progress will just be extra difficult. A quick glance at top 10 atm reveals just that. People aren't queuing because again, they know they will get chopped.

Good job with all the procrastinating around SM in arena and new rules for rewards. As now, even the oldies with SM are coming out of the woodwork to get their chance to show some SM skill and perhaps obtain shoulders. Arena is basically destroyed untill all these people leave the 0-1500 bracket.

Once again, the rules are tailored for the have's and not the have not's. Good job.

[Nazz]

Let us count platers and SMs.

It's gonna be too late when you realize what you've done Roel.
Edit: Few classes missing there too (mage,lock,rogue).

[Dysphoria]

hehe .....